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Forbidding your students to train at other clubs

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  • Forbidding your students to train at other clubs

    Mr Jackson mentioned this earlier and It has got me thinking.

    A lot of instructors forbid their students training elsewhere.
    I have seen this in Taekwon-Do groups where they won't even let their students train with other Taekwon-Do instructors just because they are from a different association.

    A lot of the time this is because instructors are scared their students may leave and go to another instructor. When in reality the fact that they are not being open minded enough to let their students try other things is what is pushing some students away.

    I have found over the years some of the most open minded instructors who themselves have cross trained and allow their students to do this also are some of the most knowledgeable instructors I have met.
    They are also some of the most welcoming instructors because they aren't stuck under the politics of my school is better than yours etc.

    Have any of you experienced this and what are your thoughts on this?


  • #2
    I totally agree with this mark. The only way to advance in life is through learning. My old karate club were exactly like that never wanting or letting students mix with other clubs. There tournaments were always interclub I even got told to take posts of my personal Facebook account that advertised other club's and styles. Since leaving them and training in kung-fu with Sifu Chris Crudelli I have had the chance to meet and train with some of the best martial artist in the country well world. This has advanced my martial arts 10 fold in just the last 3 years. And even being advised to train with others to become more rounded and knowledgeable.


    • #3
      Great points OSensei ?

      I feel everyone you meet has something that they can teach you. As long as you keep an open mind.
      Aboit 6 years ago now I entered a few open tournaments, so that I could see what it was like to compete against martial artists of different styles and so I could learn to adapt under pressure to their style of fighting.
      Quite an eye opener and experience. That tournament sent me on quite a journey of experience and learning. We are all always still learning.
      I remember an instructor of mine from America saying to me once. If you want to learn and train with the best you will need to travel.
      ​​​​​​Such a valid point. I have met so many nice and very talented martial artists since I started travelling around to learn


      • #4
        This used to go on a lot years ago. I am surprised it is still happening today though. A real shame for students as this is mostly about fear from teachers allowing their students to enjoy their martial journey.


        • #5
          I totally agree with your points (i put being allowed to cross train as one of the the things i look for in "finding the right instructor for you" post).

          I'm sad to say I've even seen it inter organisation.

          From what i have observed, my feelings are that teachers who do not allow it are not as knowledgeable and potentially less confident instructors. It's like they feel they may lose control of the class / student if they've had some other influence.


          • #6
            Studying Daoist T’ai Chi the society has a rule like this that applies only to instructors. This is to preserve the system that master Moy developed, and I can respect that. It is a unique approach to t’ai chi and inside the class we are forbidden from talking about other styles or previous training. I do find it a little stifling and cliquey but I get where it comes from.

            Even with the restriction I might consider becoming an instructor but that’s because I am happy to work on one very deep energy form for the rest of my life now. A bit like playing the field as a youngster and then settling down in a marriage I guess.

            In my early years I trained with many styles and even formed a fight club for instructors from any style which taught me so much.


            • #7
              Best scene I ever witnessed in our mixed session - an 18 stone korean tae kwon do instructor who had kicked me clean off the mat, who used to come at you like a piano down a staircase... a little 5 foot tall french ju jitsu instructor jumped i to him between kicks, grabbed his collar bones wrapped his legs around and kicked his knees out and the piano crashed to the floor, whereupon he was tied in a knot and had to tap out. Outstanding clash of styles. We were all good friends no BS rivalries.


              • #8
                I think that philosophy is quite old school, even when I did Tae KwonDo we would have guest instructors and attend seminars held by other organisations. With the Ninjutsu org I am with now we have days where we invite teachers of different martial arts and their students to come and train/share with us for an evening, you learn a lot from cross art training. I personally haven’t got time for martial arts politics, why shut your self off from like minded people who may have something of value to teach or share


                • #9
                  Very good points Mr Jones
                  Some of the Taekwondo organisations still forbid students cross training now.
                  Like say some ITF groups would not let their students train with the TAGB for example.

                  I've seen Masters tell their students they can't go to a cross training Seminar, yet they themselves will do a Seminar for a Karate School.
                  Silly really. Like you say people miss out on so much


                  • #10
                    I've fortunately not encountered too much opposition from instructors when expressing an interest in attending another school or a workshop in another style. That said I have encountered some of the politics which inevitably go with human nature. With criticism being directed at certain schools / groups because their master has been seen as diverging in some way from tradition and therefore should be avoided (without a valid reason). I recognise what was said in relation to resistance between associations, a good friend had a lot of problems when wanting to cross train from tang soo do and eventually gave it up after years of training. But this is an instructor issue and not an association or school. I would be suspicious of an instructor who would not encourage varied experience and growth.


                    • #11
                      I personally have a philosophy not to criticise styles instructors clubs or students. As a general rule of thumb If you don’t have anything good to say don’t say anything.
                      My students are encouraged to cross train and stick at what they find suits them best.
                      My only rule is I ask for is, if you are going to train with us make it regular for your own development and for that if the group as a whole. Im unable to commit to teaching those who don’t commit a valid block of time and effort ( which is needed to upskil) or to those who regularly dip in and out of training.


                      • #12
                        The association I train under has this rule (never stopped me!) and I do think this is valid to a point because many students aren't open minded enough to accept an alternative philosophy. 'A dog can't bark for two masters' my instructor would say.
                        Even within a given style we hear "we don't do it that way" or "my teacher said this" "that's not right, I was taught this" and so on.
                        Technically our rule is that students are forbidden to grade in another system, cross training is therefore allowed. For the mature minded individual I think this is vital for personal development and I will always seek to train with the best people I can find!